Thats why I would use a better example: If you knew that someone is a recovering alcoholic, would you employ him as a barkeeper? Maybe then, someone would seek him out to lead and it would be safe again. Returning so soon to the limelight reinforces the idea that it really is all about Mark. . Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community I recently darkened the doors of a very small church in another city. Che is somewhat of a romantic figure for a lot of people which is why bringing him up can be uncomfortable. CAn you see him in some sort of corporate environment working for a woman? The authentic community I was referring to is the it term/concept in megas for 2015. A grunge rock Lord Byron mad, bad and dangerous to know. Now the shock will be realizing how far theyve strayed from those virtues. For a number of reasons Texans dont want to say bad things about a church no matter how many people are being hurt. Sincerely want to know what the alternative is. Van, I agree with Deb. He told me he will vote against repeal. What am I saying? I think it underestimates those believers in the pews who are, themselves, filled with the Spirit and do exhibit the fruit of Galations 5. Bah, hit reply to soon. . And Ive certainly heard many tales of people who were awful people moving onto ministry later on in life. I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. Persecuted, but You cant criticize me for a moment. Only when inquiring about membership was their any discussion of W2s and the appropriate amount to tithe. Seems like the truth being covered, twisted, remade, ignored is what keeps these people in power and LTs post brings the truth as it actually is back to the forefront. they warm up to stone people like baseball players and lay their coats at the feet of saul to show he is the alpha. (I would have thought he was the lazy one who didnt want to get his hands dirty by actually doing anything but talking a lot), takes it from daniel where god becomes man, if you saw Jesus you would not likely see him as you expect. https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. Again. Youre not trying hard enough! There is no reason why he should be a pastor again. I am more interested in why the pew sitters fall for it and focusing there. Lindell needs to state, specifically, what has been written about Driscoll that is a lie, because he is in effect calling all the victims and the 40 pastors/elders who filed formal charges against MD liars. "We cannot endorse a candidate and we cannot endorse a party," he said. How Much Does James River Church Pay in 2023? (26 Salaries) You said again twice. I began to see him as a marketing expert, who was producing what the young Reformed, technology driven market would respond to, and then marketing it in excellent ways. Whatever is going through Marks head, he is bent on getting people to listen to him again and to be heard. I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. This is not a measure of faith. there is a scripture somewhere that says i wont speak against Gods annointed, which was david re saul i believe, and people have used this (or churches have used this to keep people quiet) as a reason to never say anything about church abuse. I dont see him pastoring a church and I am not even sure his legal problems from the last one are over. As far as people moving into ministry later in life, one would hope they had left that life behind and were new creations in Christ. was paul asking for forgiveness? @ Bob M: You need to check yourself Lindell then apologize and repent. So now is the time ta share with kind folks the destination of their eternal soul? I believe they were simply behaving as their normal selves. The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. Unfortunately I dont see loose associations of Christ followers functioning in my locale but I continually find more dones, those done with institutional church. "Homosexual activity will lead to destruction. I will post about this. I take it to mean: Don't feel so bad, there are whole lot of other people hell-bound, too. With this much covidiocy in the country, we are proving ourselves to be the dumbest nation on earth. I think older people ignored the bad boy Driscoll because he seemed to be reaching the young people. So quick question if anyone wants to take a whack at it. It is all choreographed and it works! He needs to clean up the mess that he made. Not much time has passed since he stepped down. Blech!! I have read both accounts that Che was short for Chancho and also a play on his habitually calling everyone che which is slang for pal/friend etc. 99,693 were here. I hope others will join in at places like this blog and help shed light on local megas in their area. John Lindell has spoken. For mr. driscoll to change the whole meaning of this into the sponge was probably really used as toilet paper because he did some study in some far away country is to bring doubt to Gods prophecies and the fulfilment of them. Hosting a giant event without distancing or masking is irresponsible and insulting to the people on the front lines of this crisis, most especially the health care workers who are overwhelmed. This was not due to the kindness of the elders (who told us we could not leave because we were under church discipline). Its America and hes free to do that if he wishes, but its not proper, again, IMO. He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. So work harder for the state and your comrades who do not meet their quotas. (we want to prop mark up so he can do it himself), Mark says: jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) Unless of course, they give up the celebrity/money/position and go into obscurity getting real jobs. Until Mark repents of his Peasant Princess series along with its cartoon, and his Esther series, and his man stay-at-home man fail rants, the only sermon I will listen to of his and his supporters is John 3:16. Do your part with the people in your life, give to your church, beyond that have a global heart for widows, orphans, the poor and those in need, I am going to ask you to support some widows and orphans in Africa, We have an orphanage, we have a villagemembers of Mars Hill have actually moved there to take care of widows and orphans.. was paul asking for forgiveness? I never saw it tried in a church setting, but something like that was tried where I worked. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. No. I sometimes think the man has no friends, but if he does, they should help him now. You have no idea how freeing it has been not to be shamed into believing the best groupthink of celebs when in fact, patterns, polity, hierarchical doctrines and associations should have given us pause all along. @ Bridget: Che was tots adorbs. Based on my experience, this public story should be seen as somewhat inevitable in how they operate. So far I define church as more what it isnt rather than what it is. they get tired of hearing his kind words they shove it into his mouth. Certainly, Fulgencio Batista (dictator of Cuba at the time of the communist takeover) was a very corrupt man, whose government did terrible things, as with Trujillo in the Dominican Republic, Papa Doc Duvalier in Haiti, and many others. . His style appealed to the carnal nature of 21st century Christians he gave them what they wanted and they loved it so. 2023 www.news-leader.com. And these leaders present themselves as one thing but are deceiving people the entire time. I dont beleive that for a moment. Gr8 fun. But with those reading glasses they are losing their hipness and relevance and megas feed off of young marrieds with children. If any blogger made such a vague blanket statement as this theyd be called out immediately. Some are stronger and more capable of speaking out and as we feel able to I believe that we must. "The mayor was not in favor of this ordinance," Lindell told his congregation. COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . Don't you know that the way he behaved and treated people is no big deal? (KY3) - OZARK, Mo. . And shame on these preachers at these churches giving MD a platform to relaunch his church-related career. Anyone who knowingly overlooks all this has no judgement. This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. If after many years of that, he wrote a book about how God brought about change within, Id be interested in reading it. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. He was a mass murdering thug. (Note I did not diagnose) I do believe seen in that light, it makes it simpler to see how he gets by with it and why some who also make their living in similar ways are promoting him. It is an issue of protecting other people. But the dishonest churches can be relied upon to cry persecution. An online petition calling for Mr Driscoll to be removed from Hillsong's conferences had attracted more than 3000 signatures prior toMr Houston's statement. Whenever I hear Mark Driscolls name, a passage keeps popping in my mind Beware of Alexander the coppersmith he has done us much harm. Driscoll and his potty-mouth preaching made an everlasting mark on 21st century church in America. It was especially appropriate to hear last night since our current sermon series is on the topic of Worship. They want their congregations and the world at large to believe that there are no amount of misdeeds that a pastor can perform, no matter how egregious, that means they shouldnt be instantly forgiven and returned to the pulpit ASAP. Then he could claim more fictional persecution. They use lots of hair gel and work on their golf tans. I am also pretty sure the accounts of his instrumental role in bringing Russian nuclear-armed ballistic missiles to Cuba to be used against the US were not purely fabricated, so I did not believe I was disseminating false information at the time I wrote that. i think that it worked quite well for Youth with a Mission for several years and then it went awry and i dont know the particulars of what happened. It is ok to ask for openess and transparancy. Also, there is a difference, IMO, between forgiveness and trust restoration. I will never forget the first time I was looking at an org chart of a mega while prepping to facilitate a planning session. I seriously doubt that most younger people then or now who appropriate his image (here in N. America) know much of anything about him. James River Church's 2020 Christmas service. His behaviour has been SO egregious, that I believe that he needs to stay out of anything that offers him a place of leadership or authority. Where are all the former higly paid speaking gigs that were constant and kept his calendar full with travel? Same goes for singles. I would argue the reverse. Like the guy who was in charge of SGM, he got away scot-free and is doing well for himself despite the outcry against him. Well, Jesus, Stephen, Paul, and Mark Driscoll. 1 point: homosexuality is a sin, according to the Bible, and Christians should vote for repeal. News articles and such are also greatly appreciated. In attempting to keep us from leaving they recruited the largest donor to Agathos (who was also a large donor to Mars Hill Church) to encourage us to stay. You can learn a lot about someones character from how they treat those who are below them in status. He apparently had many nicknames during the course of his life, but became known by Che. It is not short for chancho.. here is a bit of what i could type out as he was speaking, would love to see a transcript of it instead of having to listen to it though. Why would either (or any) group that knew him in his previous state ever trust him without lots of evidence of change. They are relinquishing 10-20% of their gross income. Rumors that circulated after the trial of Paul Petry. And Jesus said He would send the Spirit of Truth, how we deal with situations in truth or deceitfulness is very telling. Hmmm, trust the Spirit, and let them be killed like Ananias and Sapphira? Mencken: No one in this world, so far as I know and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. They stirred up the people now the mob is forming. Are you not voting? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i7lv9oMjv_0&sns=em. I find it hard to believe he truly didnt know anything before last weekend! I wish I knewits beyond comprehension. luke was paul's dr and paul was luke's pastor. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. I could not exactly put my finger on what was wrong. LT wrote: There has not been a frank identification of the flaw in the system that produced the horrific results. And he actually dismissed several of them as how Sissies or men who wear product in their hair act. Do you know his history and what he represents? Seems odd that Robert, Tom Lane and Jimmy Evans need to be pounding their book sales so hard when they are all getting raptured in the next 3.5 years. Let me look it up. if your a sports fan theres a point of where something amazing is about to happenfootball baseball in the middle of a game changing moment they jump out of their seat. starting to act animalistic the resistance is increasing, how will stephen respond?. Did Paul hire a company to buy his books and get them on the bestseller list? (I saw a guy do this on a live stage in England once, on a YouTube video. when the pastor first says, his humility he almost breaks out laughing (cause maybe he knows how stupid it is to say that). I would hope we should higher standards than that. Have you not spilled all your dark secrets at Freedom Ministry? Some of the current worship songs that I hear dont do too much for me. This is either a complete falsehood or shows their utter lack of interest in the facts, because, as HUG so aptly quotes GK Chesterton, and let me paraphrase her, celebrity pastor unto celebrity pastor is brother. I followed up on the link and have been sharing this song with families and friends! i think bills reply echos mine mostly, if your question is what church should look like if we are all clergy. An awful lot of people are having to do the exact same thing. one passenger died. He has lots of pics holding impoverished babies while his own 5 kids barely saw him. now it seems that it has just gone to big business making a dollar off of Jesus name and some easy to quote scriptures. Nancy We would be interested in any thoughts you may have regarding Mark Driscoll's message. No I wouldnt allow someone who was an embezzler or criminal back in charge, of course not. No it wasnt, thanks for the insights. Adultery, stealing, cheating, being abusive, being a drunkard can also keep you out of heaven.". I study a lot of the giant DFW megas but most of my data is still filtered through the Gateway lens. I do feel bad for the guy in many ways. Thanks for your informative comment. The word "love" appears, Lindell said, because it would be unloving not to tell someone that when salvation is at stake. Would you hire back the embezzler to count your cash drawer after he served a short sentence because you forgave him? Are you not voting? But here is the underlying issue: we in evangelical Christianity have become so good at eisogeting the scriptures (reading ourselves into the story) it has gotten to the point of narcissism, or as one preacher puts it, narcigesis., Dont believe me? If not, why not? But over time became desensitized and swept up in group-think so as to eventually accept it as acceptable in the 21st century. Marks of a bully, and definitely not qualifications of an elder. I read your comment and have thought about this a lot. Just volunteers. What do you think, Albuquerque? I have a young friend who was totally enamored with him. I also dont think he should work or earn profit in any manner making money off Jesus (such as selling Christian books, pod casts, site subscriptions, accepting speaking fees to appear at churches, etc). COuld someone explain how its supposed to work without a leader . In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/, https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/, http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, http://godsbreath.net/2007/11/07/qualifications-for-pastors/, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1989926/posts, http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/07/hillsong-pastor-brian-houston-found-fathers-sex-abuse-confession-agonising, http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308, http://www.nancyalcorn.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=21, http://nativenewsonline.net/currents/the-dilemma-of-the-fourth-of-july/, http://www.smh.com.au/national/hillsong-conference-shows-interview-with-controversial-us-pastor-mark-driscoll-20150630-gi1y6d.html, http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2015/june/distraction-down-under-hillsong-mark-driscoll-conference.html, In reply to forgiven-to-be-forgiving . The prophets in that verse are likewise OT prophets and also refers only to physical harm. The name Che is a nickname, short for pig (chancho), for a reason. In the wake of this and other scandals, the Mars Hill Church collapsed. Youll notice the Pentecostals elevating him are in their 50s and 60s. I suppose they could have been made up, although the accounts are supported by numerous descriptions of his pig like behavior. Of course BHouston can know about MDs statements in the past 5 minutes of Googling will turn up Wenatchee The Hatchets meticulous documentation, screenshots and all, and Warren Throckmortons extensive documentation, the mp3 of the infamous sermon in Scotland, etc pp. Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. That does not mean you want harm to come to them. The Jews in Damascus want to kill him and he is snuck out of town by believers. I dont think people that have fallen for false teachers are stupid, i think instead it reflects the degree of deceit in the false teachers and the seriousnes of the manipulations being used. ATB If a pastor says anything positive about another pastor, they have something to hide. and that it is ok to debate that point in public. Steven Reed, Stephens' opponent, had an easier time answering. They are not good for him, and he not good for the people he leads. In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? @wartwatch Not even the milk toast "We regret if anyone was offended"? I want to know how I was deceived. If so you may be onto something. I admit that I am rather skeptical of James River's reliability now, most of this information was new to me. Because 12 years ago Walter Salles made an awesome movie about him called The Motorcycle Diaries starring the gentle heartthrob Gael Garcia Bernal as Che. Mark is playing the victim.

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