Saddleback Mountain Lions Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Ask Sam: Why Won't New Hampshire Admit There Are Mountain Lions Here And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Windham Life and Times - November 15, 2019 Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. Thanks for your call. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. That's pretty elaborate. Well let's talk a little bit about that. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. So do they. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. Peter Biello: Oh okay. Mike thanks for your call. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. New Hampshire Public Radio | Your support makes this news available to everyone. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. Mike you're on the air. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. If so that's for us as an agency. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. Yes. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. Peter Biello: Wow. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. They absolutely do. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. Mountain Lions in NH. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? I have one that's more elaborate than that. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. John you're on the air. Tell us your story. I just want to tell you a story that I read. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. They don't know the direction they're going. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. Mountain Lion Population By State: 2023 Data [Statistics] So you want identifiable backgrounds. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. Think You Saw A Mountain Lion in N.H.? - New Hampshire Public Radio Are there mountain lions in New Hampshire? : r/newhampshire - reddit As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. I can't. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. Women control our lives. While State Denies Mtn Lions are in NH, Numerous Sightings Say I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Wildlife biologist breaks down mountain lion sightings in CT | New Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. 1957. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. So give us a call now. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. Sam. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. And so a mountain lion is actually quite large right. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. NH Wildlife News and Info | NH Wildlife The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Select image for larger view. The brother and sister big cats have lived . support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. Caller: Absolutely. Caller: I have yeah. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. I found a second scat scent both to him. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. 44-H Links. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. I mean they're a survivor. Okay. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. The 17-year-old Kiger mustang mare was born in Bend, Oregon, said Hodskins, who got her . Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. No I saw a camel. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. Think you've seen a mountain lion. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. Here it is. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. John is calling from Bennington. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. Let us know your story and share your photos! Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. And it was unmistakable. OK. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. Give today. So let's let's go to the phones. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. We had six copies printed out each. We want answers. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. You don't know what's going on. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. They sent it already. Theres tracks everywhere. How far were you from this cat. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. Well they are the same. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. Part II. The supervisor that hired me in the game division in October of 1978 passed on to me this whole big folder of mountain lion information and sightings going back probably a couple decades. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. Good morning guys. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Let's look for other evidence. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. I tracked cats and all the western states. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. We'll be right back. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . Yeah I did. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. So there's even debate about that very subject. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. There's always been physical evidence to prove those situations like hair or fur scat hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. It's good to talk to you. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! For all the men out there that don't realize it. I didn't see him online. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. I'll send it to you. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. What's going on. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. John thanks. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. Oh you saw him online. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. 1,470 likes. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Give today. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. And those are not the same things. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. Gap Mountain Lions Club So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. So what those ranges. Mountain Lions in New England: Sightings, Science & Bobcat vs Mountain Lion Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination.

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